Podcast: Utilizing Dying as Motivation to Stay

Podcast: Using Death as Motivation to Live

How typically do you consider dying? In the event you’re like most individuals, you in all probability attempt to maintain it within the again corners of your thoughts. However based on at present’s visitor, Kate Manser, remembering you would possibly die tomorrow is the perfect inspiration to stay at present. Kate asserts that once we incorporate a sure stage of mortality consciousness into our each day lives, it motivates us to worth life a lot extra and to stay every day with intention. We begin to discover pleasure within the small issues and stay in a method that makes a optimistic outward ripple for all of humanity.

So how will we handle to consider dying with out falling into worry? Tune into at present’s Psych Central podcast to listen to Kate’s journey and the way we will all stay life to the fullest.


Visitor data for ‘Kate Manser- Dying as Motivation’ Podcast Episode

At 30 years previous, Kate Manser realized an necessary fact: Remembering that you just would possibly die tomorrow is the perfect inspiration to stay at present. After experiencing this radical shift in perspective, Kate give up her job at Google to construct YOU MIGHT DIE TOMORROW, her motion to encourage individuals at all ages to essentially stay earlier than they die. 

In the event you bear in mind just one factor about Kate, let or not it’s this: she is simply so pleased to be alive. Discover extra of her work at

About The Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning author and speaker who lives with bipolar dysfunction. He’s the writer of the favored e book, Psychological Sickness is an Asshole and different Observations, accessible from Amazon; signed copies are additionally accessible instantly from the writer. To study extra about Gabe, please go to his web site,

Laptop Generated Transcript for ‘Kate Manser- Dying as Motivation’ Episode

Editor’s Word: Please be conscious that this transcript has been pc generated and subsequently might include inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thanks.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Psych Central Podcast, the place visitor consultants within the subject of psychology and psychological well being share thought-provoking data utilizing plain, on a regular basis language. Right here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Welcome to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Podcast. Calling into the present at present now we have Kate Manser. At 30 years previous, Kate realized an necessary fact, remembering that you just would possibly die tomorrow is the perfect inspiration to stay at present. After experiencing this radical shift in perspective, Kate give up her job at Google to construct YOU MIGHT DIE TOMORROW, her motion to encourage individuals at all ages to essentially stay earlier than they die. Kate, welcome to the present.

Kate Manser: Gabe, pleased at present.

Gabe Howard: Oh, thanks a lot for being right here. Now, at present we’re going to debate dying or are we going to debate life? How do you see it?

Kate Manser: Completely, yeah. I imply, it’s all form of intertwined. You possibly can’t have a dialog about dying with out additionally having a dialog about life. And likewise often at that desk is a dialog about worry and/or nervousness in addition to that means.

Gabe Howard: Within the preparation for the present, I saved seeing, you realize, dying over and over and over. And at first it was a bit of overwhelming, like, why couldn’t or not it’s referred to as “You would possibly stay tomorrow?” You recognize, dying simply has such a adverse connotation to it. And actually, I feel most of us would agree that dying is adverse. How do you wrap your thoughts round you truly being an extremely optimistic particular person?

Kate Manser: Sure, completely. I’m an especially optimistic particular person, and it’s a few various things. Primary, which is dealing with your fears, it’s a model of publicity remedy. So I truly went by way of a 12 months of actually intense dying nervousness the place I used to be afraid of dying on a regular basis. Each time I bought within the automobile, each time I laid down to fall asleep, I’d have films taking part in in my head that my mother died or how I died. And so, what broke that for me was realizing I’ve one life, I’m going to die it doesn’t matter what. I can both embrace that fact and use it as my motivation to stay, or I can simply waste my life persevering with in worry.

Gabe Howard: This does beg the query; how do you face your worry of dying?

Kate Manser: Very rigorously and each single day. And the factor is, that once more, if we’re excited about worry, life, dying and that means once more, they’re all form of sitting at this dinner desk. Nobody’s ever going to rise up from that desk, proper? Like worry is all the time gonna be related to dying. Dying is all the time going to be related to life. And we’re all the time looking for some that means amongst all of it. And so, I’ve not overcome my worry of dying. I’m afraid of dying. And I’ll all the time proceed to be. However what I’ve performed is accepted the fact of my mortality to a degree the place I’m now not actively in worry of it each day. And what has occurred is that I’ve discovered that it’s my finest motivation to stay, as a result of I don’t learn about you, Gabe, however I work finest on deadlines. And so, I’m a procrastinator and I’ll procrastinate on life for eternally and until I’m 80, 90 years previous, if hopefully I get there. After which impulsively, I look again and I’m like, shoot. I lackadaisically lived my life. And so residing as if the deadline is tomorrow for me is the perfect drugs for a procrastinator.

Gabe Howard: One of many issues that you just stated is discovering that means in life, and the very first thing that form of popped into my head is now we have an actual drawback discovering that means as a result of it’s form of subjective, proper? Some individuals discover that means in taking good care of their canine. However different persons are like, properly, no, except I treatment most cancers, my life has no that means. How do you discover that means in your life, particularly the large issues versus the on a regular basis issues?

Kate Manser: So I’ll reply that query. However simply backing up a bit of bit to form of get in the direction of that, which is in case you research the psychology of mortality consciousness and the psychology of worry on the whole, the 2 finest methods to mitigate or decrease your worry of dying are, primary, publicity remedy. So gently invite mortality into your life by reclassifying dying as now not morbid, however a pure a part of life. There’s all these Instagram accounts that you could observe, books you’ll be able to learn. And even simply observing dying and endings in your life may help you recondition that response from worry and this like connotation of morbidity to once more, that on a regular basis reality of life. And the second-best strategy to mitigate your worry of dying is to stay meaningfully as a result of, OK, certain, dying is horrifying. It’s mysterious. We don’t know. However a maybe larger worry is dying having not lived. Proper? Dying, having not lived, having wasted our life. And so, by residing in alignment with our that means, no matter that subjective that means is, such as you stated, we will decrease our worry of dying. Nicely, how do you reside meaningfully? I don’t know. No person actually is aware of. And I feel it’s actually demanding to attempt to, like, stay your higher function in life. So what I do is I simply attempt to get pleasure from my life each single day. And I consider that on the finish of my life, if I’ve loved my life, I cannot solely not remorse my life, however I’ll have created a optimistic impression which can also be significant to me.

Gabe Howard: I really like every little thing that you just stated, however there’s additionally this a part of me that simply instantly was like, properly, to be able to love my life, I need to give up my job, I need to promote my home. I need to mainly to be able to discover pleasure in my life, I feel I have to be independently rich. And naturally, I’m not independently rich. And I seen even when you had been speaking, I used to be getting caught on this suggestions loop the place I used to be like, oh, properly, I can’t do this as a result of I’ve to work. 

Kate Manser: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I can’t do this as a result of I’ve to deal with my spouse. Oh, I’ve household tasks. And I think about that a variety of our listeners are pondering, properly, that is nonsense. You simply can’t have pleasure on a regular basis. What do you say to that?

Kate Manser: Nicely, what I can inform you is that, I had what I contemplate, I assume, a non secular awakening, which is after I realized and completely modified my perspective on dying, that opened me up and made me care much less about what different individuals assume, made me worth time extra, made me need to prioritize having fun with my life. And the opposite factor that I did as soon as I had that non secular awakening was I did give up my job. I did journey around the globe for 2 years. And you realize what occurred on the finish after I after the 2 years I used to be touring and every little thing was nice was I ran out of cash and I needed to come again to common life. I needed to get an everyday job, get an everyday residence. And what I spotted in that complete expertise is that massive, significant issues, such as you stated, changing into independently rich, quitting your job, beginning a enterprise, having children, no matter that’s for you. These are necessary. And you’ll bear in mind these on the finish of your life. And I can nearly assure that you’ll possible remorse not having tried these massive significant issues. However what I spotted when the mud settled after my non secular awakening and quitting the job and touring around the globe is that that have fades and exhilaration fades. However what I discovered is that my new path in life and my new thought of what residing such as you would possibly die tomorrow is, is discovering these small, significant issues that carry pleasure to our on a regular basis life. Like wanting up at a blue sky and simply smiling and feeling your aliveness, listening to the sound of your partner or your children chortle, like actually actually stopping to odor the flowers, having fun with the style of your espresso. Like these are the small, significant issues that can make up, each in amount and high quality, the higher enjoyment of your life.

Gabe Howard: A lot of what you stated, they only sound like actually tough and difficult selections that individuals should make of their lives, and you’ve got one thing referred to as the dying mattress intestine examine. I’m very to listen to what that’s.

Kate Manser: So the dying mattress intestine examine is one thing that I simply began naturally doing after I realized how clear your perspective on life is once you take a look at it from the angle of your dying. So there’s one thing about being on the finish of your life. Once more, you don’t actually care what individuals assume. You’ve gotten this sense of authenticity. You’ve gotten a transparent perspective on what’s and isn’t necessary to you. However I don’t need to wait till I’m useless or on my deathbed to have the ability to have that clear perspective on my life. So what I do is after I’m confronted with a choice in life, and this might be one thing so simple as what ought to I do at present to one thing as massive as ought to I give up my job or ought to I’ve children or ought to I’m going skydiving? And we will form of do that collectively, which is you consider a tricky determination that you just’re dealing with in your life and also you shut your eyes and also you think about your self from the angle of being in your deathbed and also you’re wanting again on the current second. So you’ve got your determination you talked about. How would I really feel wanting again on this determination on the finish of my life if I selected choice A? And also you observe how you’re feeling in your intestine. Perhaps you’re feeling a sinking feeling that you’ve got taken the fallacious path. Perhaps you’re feeling a lightness of being and like a happiness that you just did one thing that you just felt was in alignment together with your sense of that means. And perhaps you repeat that having chosen choice B or nonetheless many choices you’ve got. However once more, this angle of being on the finish of your life, all the judgment, worry, fear simply slides away and we’re left with this clear perspective. And so the deathbed intestine examine permits you to entry that clear perspective when you’re alive.

Gabe Howard: In a method, it sounds lots such as you’re saying that it’s important to stay with intention. I feel many people simply form of pinball from from one disaster or one trip or one work day or one second to the following. And there’s no intention. While you’re contemplating how this determination goes to really feel once you’re in your deathbed, that appears very, very intentional to me.

Kate Manser: Oh, completely. And I give it some thought by way of provide and demand. Proper? When now we have an overabundance of a commodity, no matter it’s, the worth goes down and we care much less about it. Proper? When the worth of fuel is low, you go to any previous fuel station that’s anyplace. However when the worth of fuel is excessive, you worth it extra and also you’re gonna search out the best worth that yow will discover for that. And that’s what residing such as you would possibly die tomorrow does, it places life within the perspective of a restricted provide, which then raises the perceived worth which causes you to stay extra deliberately. As a result of in case you assume you’re going to stay to all eighty seven years of American life expectancy, like the provision is nice and subsequently the worth is decrease. However in case you take a look at your life as a really, very restricted time provide, the worth skyrockets and immediately each second is that this excessive worth reward.

Gabe Howard: I’m nonetheless very hung up on this idea of how can dying be motivation to stay? I’m beginning to perceive it. And naturally, you realize, dying is one thing that all of us fake that we’re not going to do. 

Kate Manser: Mm-hmm.

Gabe Howard: For no matter purpose, all of us assume that we’re going to stay eternally, regardless that that’s statistically not possible. However you’ve got turned dying right into a motivation which is extremely intriguing. However are you able to drill down even farther on how dying will be motivation to stay? 

Kate Manser: I feel it’s totally different for everybody, like so for me, excited about dying once more places life in that restricted provide, which thereby raises the worth. It additionally offers me a way of readability on my life. Like I stated, in order that once more raises the worth and once more, simply pondering the truth that dying is one thing that’s going to occur to each single one in every of us. Proper? You possibly can come to phrases with it otherwise you can’t. I favor a life wherein I do come to phrases with it. And it causes you to consider your life in a really totally different method and pondering that your life will go on and on and on eternally with, you realize, this immortal form of mindset, such as you simply stated, once more, that worth goes down. And I desire a life that I really feel alive. I desire a life that I get pleasure from moments and bear in mind doing issues that I be ok with. I’m additionally like a egocentric and egotistical particular person, like everyone else. And like, after I do die, I need butts in seats at that funeral. I need individuals to really feel an area the place I’ve gone. A part of residing such as you would possibly die tomorrow is realizing that we create our legacy each single day. And so, if you wish to be remembered as nice, it’s important to stay as nice. In order for you individuals to overlook you once you’re gone, it’s important to stay in a method at present that makes them miss you when you’re gone. And so, for me, that’s form of a egocentric and egotistical factor. However I don’t actually care the motivation, no matter it takes to encourage me to stay a very good life. I embrace.

Gabe Howard: Kate, the sentiment you would possibly die tomorrow, it appears actually form of harsh. How do you soften that?

Kate Manser: Sometimes, my model is you would possibly die tomorrow in massive letters after which beneath that, however a lot smaller, it says so stay at present. And for most individuals who’ve this sort of ingrained worry of dying, which the worry of dying is common. So there’s all the time going to be worry. However that “so stay at present” on the backside simply actually helps individuals embrace the message of you would possibly die tomorrow. There are such a lot of those that take into consideration dying and there’s so many individuals that both had a near-death expertise or have had a traumatic loss of their life. And it’s induced them to take a look at life otherwise. Folks will speak to me about how they’d misplaced somebody of their lives. You recognize, their mother had died and so they had been residing otherwise ever since. And now they’ve lastly seen a saying that helps them put a framework to their new outlook on life. I’ve gotten feedback like that is essentially the most motivating sticker I’ve ever seen on one in every of my runs. Lastly, somebody is speaking about dying in a motivating method. I’ve hundreds and hundreds of followers that they’re determined for somebody to lastly carry dying out of the darkness and into the sunshine and be reminded that all of us must get up and notice that our life is a restricted time provide.  

Gabe Howard: We will likely be proper again after these messages.

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Gabe Howard: We’re again discussing the way you would possibly die tomorrow with Kate Manser. Let’s discuss your story for a second. You’ve form of described it as you awakened at some point and also you realized that you would die, in order that ended positively. What’s the lengthy model?

Kate Manser: Sure. I imply, the lengthy model is that I used to be similar to everyone else. I by no means actually thought of dying in any respect. I simply assumed that I’d stay eternally, stay to be 90 and. However what occurred was in 2014, within the span of six months, I had three of my buddies die who had been round my similar age simply from random, sudden tragedies. My boss at Google, he was on trip and died when he was leaping into the water. A buddy of mine from school died strolling throughout the road. She was hit by a drunk driver. And a member of the family of mine died from aggressive renal most cancers at 35. In order that was what despatched me into that 12 months of dying nervousness. And I feel lots of people undergo a interval in our life the place we’re form of consumed by the worry of dying and the mysteriousness of it. And it was to the purpose that it took over my life and I used to be now not having fun with my life as a result of I used to be continually preoccupied with dying. And what lastly snapped me out of that unexpectedly was a fourth buddy of mine died. He was climbing Mount Everest, my buddy Dan Fredinburg, and he died when the Nepal earthquake struck within the spring of 2015, which triggered an avalanche on the mountain.

Kate Manser: And his dying induced me to take a look at my life and be like, Kate, you’re afraid of driving by way of an intersection. You’ve gotten allowed the worry of dying to take over your life. And right here’s your superb courageous buddy residing out his most genuine life. You recognize, I might die climbing Everest. I might die within the intersection that I’m afraid of, or I might die climbing the steps. And I simply realized I didn’t need to expend my valuable life, time and power in worry. And I’d reasonably spend my life power residing my very best most vibrant life. And often, after somebody dies, it’s like, oh, hug your children tighter, name your mother. However that all the time fades. However why can’t now we have that perspective for our whole life? And in order that’s actually what shifted for me. After which quickly after that, I had a realization the place I used to be like, I don’t should observe the blueprint. I can stay the life that I need. I might go stay on a ship; I might transfer to Japan. I spotted that I’ve autonomy over my life. And all of this occurred across the age of thirty for me. And so now I take into consideration dying each day. And I don’t need to die. I all the time can have worry. However I see dying as my best motivation to stay whereas I’m nonetheless kickin.

Gabe Howard: That’s simply a fully unbelievable story. And I’m so sorry on your loss. I don’t assume anyone can take heed to your story and in addition not really feel dangerous along with feeling optimistic that you just had like a non secular awakening. That’s a variety of dying to beat and in a comparatively brief time frame. Did you’ve got any adverse results from that?

Kate Manser: Oh, yeah, completely. So, I imply, I went by way of that 12 months of intense dying nervousness the place that was not a strategy to stay, however in my analysis of all of this afterwards. You recognize, we’ve all heard of PTSD, post-traumatic stress dysfunction.

Gabe Howard: Mm-hmm. Sure.

Kate Manser: We’re very acquainted with what that appears like. What are a few of the issues that trigger that? Definitely, loss and grief is completely a set off for PTSD. However what I discovered in my analysis is that there’s one other facet of that referred to as PTG, post-traumatic progress. And it’s not an either-or. It’s not like, oh, you’ve got a traumatic expertise and both you get PTSD or you’ve got this PTG, post-traumatic progress. They will each happen. And once more, psychology is never linear. And so what I feel occurred to me was that I skilled these deaths, I went by way of some PTSD, I assume, after which by way of that, I used to be capable of form of stream into post-traumatic progress. What occurs in PTG is your life will get jumbled up by an expertise. Sometimes, a really adverse traumatic expertise after which assimilate and readjust your new life and doubtlessly change your views and develop. And I feel it’s a typical factor. Proper? This concept of going by way of a tough time and popping out higher and stronger after a interval of actually tough grief or laborious instances. And so what occurred to me was that I used to be capable of once more, reframe dying from being this terrifying factor that was taking up my life to dying is the non-negotiable. Proper? That factor is stationary. It’s going to occur. I don’t know when. What’s malleable is my response to it. And so I made a decision to make my response one in every of productiveness. And I feel once we take a look at dying, you’ll be able to both reply with apathy, proper? We’re going to die. Life is meaningless. Or you’ll be able to reply with nervousness, which is what I did, which is to stay in worry of dying. Or you’ll be able to reply with motion. And I’m pleased that I lastly bought to that time of productive motion. I’m not particular. I consider that everybody can get to that time.

Gabe Howard: And the way does one get to that time, how will we escape of that apathy?

Kate Manser: Nicely, I feel a message such as you would possibly die tomorrow and realizing that dying goes to occur and that now we have the power and the facility to decide on our response to that’s, I feel, an incredible begin. And again from the start of the present once we had been speaking concerning the two methods to mitigate the worry of dying. The primary is simply usually incorporating that mortality consciousness into your life and making an attempt to vary your perspective on it’s the first strategy to mitigate that worry, that publicity remedy. After which the second method is to only stay your finest life. Have enjoyable. Take moments to essentially admire being alive and revel in your self. And collectively, these moments will add as much as a life that you can be pleased to have led every time the time comes so that you can die.

Gabe Howard: Why do you assume this has resonated with so many individuals?  How do individuals often reply?

Kate Manser: I don’t know what it’s, Gabe, as a result of after I first began it, I stated this radically modified my life for the higher. I need to share this with different individuals. And I had no thought. I simply began this as a weblog. I had no concept that it will flip into the motion or revolution or no matter you need to name it at present. And I’m certain some individuals simply give it the. That’s morbid or I want I didn’t see that. However there’s additionally so many individuals that message me each single day and say, this has modified my life and I’m lastly awake.

Gabe Howard: Kate, thanks a lot for being right here, what are your last phrases for our listeners? As a result of we lined lots and at the same time as I’m sitting right here, I’m like, oh, that’s very optimistic. After which I feel, oh, that’s scary and that’s dying. And I definitely don’t know what our listeners are pondering, however I can inform you, I simply, each time dying comes up, there’s this sense in my chest. And whereas I’m listening to your phrases and intellectually, I used to be like, that is a wonderful level. That’s superb. I nonetheless have this, like, intestine examine. That’s like, ohh dangerous, ohh dangerous.

Kate Manser: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: What are your ideas on that?

Kate Manser: So psychologist Dr. Irvin D. Yalom wrote this glorious e book that I like to recommend that’s geared towards each the layman in addition to the psychologist. It’s referred to as Staring on the Solar. And he’s an existential psychologist. He’s I imply, I feel he’s in his 90s now. He’s nonetheless doing great work. And in his e book, he says that in his complete profession of speaking with sufferers which have issues of their life and/or worry of dying, the best method that he has discovered to be an antidote to the worry of dying is the idea of rippling. The thought of rippling is that what we do in our lives, particularly, good issues, they create ripples or the butterfly impact, as many people may be acquainted with, that can proceed to ripple out far past not solely our, the individuals in our life, however far past even our existence in our personal life. So the nice that we do in our life, the optimistic life that we select to steer, will create your legacy and that optimistic legacy of ripples that can proceed to exit lengthy after you’re gone. And once more, that may be a stunning method that we will keep in mind that how we stay issues, how we strategy our day issues, how we speak to the clerk on the nook retailer issues. We create optimistic ripples each single day. And that creates that legacy of goodness that I feel all of us, at our core, actually need. And so simply get pleasure from your life, have enjoyable, really feel alive. And that’s the finest strategy to create a optimistic legacy for your self on this planet.

Gabe Howard: Kate, thanks a lot for being right here. The place can people discover you on-line and the place can they get your e book?

Kate Manser: Sure, completely, I’m so excited to lastly carry this e book into the world, the title of the e book is similar because the model and the motion. YOU MIGHT DIE TOMORROW, SO LIVE TODAY. You will discover it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble. You will discover the audio e book on Audible and I’ve my hub on the place I do writings and interviews. And I’d like to get you a sticker and you may get T-shirts and all that great things to remind you to have enjoyable each single day.

Gabe Howard: Kate, thanks once more for being right here and thanks all for listening. Do you want this present? Please subscribe, rank, evaluation. In the event you share us on social media, use your phrases. Inform individuals why you favored it and why they need to pay attention. And bear in mind, you may get one week of free, handy, reasonably priced, personal on-line counseling anytime, anyplace, just by visiting We’ll see everyone subsequent week.

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